MakuluLinux

Now Offering XFCE, KDE, E17 & MATE

Forums

Post Reply
Forum Home > General Discussion > Sticky: No 64-bit version?

Orca
Member
Posts: 4

Why not?


November 4, 2013 at 8:15 AM Flag Quote & Reply

raymerjacque
Site Owner
Posts: 479

because we have both steam and wine on the distro and they arent 100% compatible with 64bit. 

Secondly, why do you need 64bit when you can make use of 32bit PAE kernel ? 

--

The new Makululinux Xfce has its moods, but once you tame her she will treat you nice...

Please Take a minute and take part in the MakuluLinux Survey by clicking here.

November 4, 2013 at 10:41 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Orca
Member
Posts: 4

Hm, hm hm ... wtf is a PAE thingy?

November 4, 2013 at 2:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

c00ter
Administrator
Posts: 294

32-bit PAE extensions allow 64-bit machines to use memory above 4 GB. Per Wikipedia:

Physical Address Extension (PAE) is a feature to allow 32-bit x86 central processing units (CPUs) to access a physical address space (including random access memory and memory mapped devices) larger than 4 gigabytes...Enabling PAE (by setting bit 5, PAE, of the system register CR4) causes major changes to this scheme. By default, the size of each page remains as 4 KB. Each entry in the page table and page directory becomes 64 bit long (8 bytes), instead of 32 bits, to allow for additional address bits.

November 4, 2013 at 3:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Orca
Member
Posts: 4

WOW, very technical. Question is can I use 64-bit programs or do I have to use the 32-bit versions?


November 4, 2013 at 10:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

raymerjacque
Site Owner
Posts: 479

32bit versions.

in a nutshell, the PAE removes the 4GB ram limit from 32bit, so it makes 32bit see all your ram ... And makulu already has PAE kernel activated.

--

The new Makululinux Xfce has its moods, but once you tame her she will treat you nice...

Please Take a minute and take part in the MakuluLinux Survey by clicking here.

November 4, 2013 at 11:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

c00ter
Administrator
Posts: 294

You can't run 64-bit programs in a 32-bit environment. However, you can run 32-bit apps in a 64-bit operating system (assuming you have multiarch support enabled). But who needs the additional overhead 64-bit apps and 64-bit OSs impose?

regards,

-c00ter

November 5, 2013 at 2:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Butterfly Effect
Member
Posts: 5

raymerjacque at November 4, 2013 at 10:41 AM

because we have both steam and wine on the distro and they arent 100% compatible with 64bit. 

Secondly, why do you need 64bit when you can make use of 32bit PAE kernel ? 

What if I don't need Steam, and can live with less than 100% compatibilite of wine programs?

64 bits OS had been invented for a reason. This distro targets desktop and laptop computers. We are in 2014, the cheapest CPU is now 64 bits. Would it be better to update the software to work on 64 bits CPU rather than adding cruft to the 32 bits version.


April 19, 2014 at 12:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

raymerjacque
Site Owner
Posts: 479

in simple terms no.


Let us sum up the pro's and cons for a minute....


64bit MakuluLinux :

 

  • Can take advantage of better memory management ( provided the software supports it, which a lot doesn't ).
  • Altho has better memory management, it uses more system ram.
  • Issues with Wine ( so running windows apps is out the window )
  • Issues with Steam ( gaming is out the window )
  • Allows single apps to make use of more than 4GB of ram ( and there is less than a handfull of software that requires that much power ).
  • Detects all your system ram and make use of it.
  • Driver issues, Driver issues, More driver issues ....

 


32bit MakuluLinux PAE :

 

  • Runs ALL software out the box smoothly without issues
  • Runs Wine smoothly out the box without issues
  • Runs Steam out the box smoothly without issues
  • No Driver Issues
  • On MANY benchmarks it out performs 64bit because it requires less resources to run, specially with gaming.
  • Can run windows software if need be
  • Can game if need be without hiccups
  • Detects all of your system memory and makes use of it

 


Now, I am all for building 64bit OS, BUT and here comes the BIG BUT, You arent the one who must offer support on it, I am. so all these little issues and niggles that 64bit suffers from, where do you think users go for support ? These forums will be filled with driver issues, software issues, wine issues, steam issues and all kinds of other crap. Take a look at Mint, Ubuntu, Debian and all the other forums, it is plagued with such shit....


32bit PAE works out the box, detects all your ram, and look how little bugs we deal with, we get 2 or 3 bug posts a day, sometimes we go few days without any bug reports... ( this week being exception because its launch week ) And honestly, have you ever seen a linux with so much eye candy run so fast or smooth ? Ever seen software run so fast ? 


So now, looking back at all this info, you still think it is a good idea to make a 64bit OS at this point in time ?


I will make 64bit when 64bit offers the same speed and reliability that the current 32bit PAE does or when I have the man power to sit and offer support to hundreds of topics with issues. Until then, the logical thing to do is keep riding this awesome wave and keep putting out distro's that performs as intended and looks great at same time :)

--

The new Makululinux Xfce has its moods, but once you tame her she will treat you nice...

Please Take a minute and take part in the MakuluLinux Survey by clicking here.

April 19, 2014 at 4:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Butterfly Effect
Member
Posts: 5

Hi,

Thanks for the detailed info. This may explain why I have audio issue with Skype on certain machines b/c I always used 64 bits OS. On my main desktop, I was "spared" (unknowlingly) from the 64 bits you mentioned  because I only use a limited set of apps which probably are stable in 64 bits.

April 21, 2014 at 1:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jeff
Member
Posts: 19

Good 64 Bit distros that are simple to use on an AMD 64 Bit machine are Ubuntu, Mint, Open Mandriva if you don't need are want XBMC, and Windows 7. Yes that's wright windows 7. It's a paid for big corporation operating system But they did an outstanding job suporting AMD 64 bit  cpu's. Windows 8 probably builds on that but I don't like the os so I coulde'nt say for sure. I think Susie linux probably does a good job with 64 bit cpu's but it runs to slow on my machine so I don't do much with em. Apple Probably does as will but I refuse to pay what they ask for the privaledge of owning one of there machines so I coulden' say for sure. The first three I mentioned Iv'e tested on my desktop and will speak for the rest are just a semi educated guess. I'm sure there are some iv'e missed I'm just speaking from my own experance. As for Makulu (in my apinion) going into  64 bit os'es - baby steps and only at the Makulu  creators discetion. I think they should perfect what they have first and go from there. Again my opinion which is worth about the price of a cup of coffe if you have the money on you for a cup of coffe.:) However with all that said if some of you have the time and skill to make a 64 bit spin off of Makulu i'd love to see what you come out with (Linux being free and open source and all.) Will botoms up.http://www.penbaypilot.com/sites/default/files/2013/09/field/image/bth_Smileywithcoffeecup.jpg

--
May 19, 2014 at 7:53 PM Flag Quote & Reply

raymerjacque
Site Owner
Posts: 479

what makes MakuluLinux Magical is offering Wine, Steam, Compiz, Emerald and a whole bunch of other stuff out the box, ALL actively developed on to work perfectly on Makulu, meaning we dont just slap the stuff on and release, we actually develop on software and improve it for the distro... and Most of that instantly goes away with 64bit.


Now i could make a 64bit version, and i may even do it down the road somewhere, but I ask myself, what would the advantages be to making 64 bit over the current distro's we offer ? Weigh the pro's and con's and see which list is bigger ....


Take a look at our forums and count the bug reports, Makulu is pretty well known now and used by MANY thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, then count the number of bug posts per day.  Now go to any other distro forums and look at number of bug reports, count the topic's .... 


The simple truth is that 64bit os on its own runs very well, but there is still software issues with far to many software titles on the market at the moment for it to have any clear advantage over 32bit, the only advatage it has is supporting 64bit intructions and being able to allocate larger ammounts of ram, and the latter is offered by a PAE kernel, so the only real advantage is 64bit instructions, but at the cost of endless problems which developers ( meaning me ) have to sit with on a daily basis.


This is my objection to making a 64bit version, If 64bit support improved, i would jump at supporting it.... But right now 32bit PAE detects all your ram, can run steam, wine and everything else with minimal or no issues, so why would you even want to put yourself through the pain of using 64bit when you know it is going to be a headache down the road ? 


As a general rule i dont like dissapointing users, if users request something and it is within my power to do it and it benifits the project then I make it so. And when a user makes a valid point and gives me a clear valid reason to make a 64bit release that will benefit the project, i just dont see the point... I am sure the day will come, it just simply has not yet.

--

The new Makululinux Xfce has its moods, but once you tame her she will treat you nice...

Please Take a minute and take part in the MakuluLinux Survey by clicking here.

May 19, 2014 at 8:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Jeff
Member
Posts: 19

"what makes MakuluLinux Magical is offering Wine, Steam, Compiz, Emerald and a whole bunch of other stuff out the box, ALL actively developed on to work perfectly on Makulu, meaning we dont just slap the stuff on and release, we actually develop on software and improve it for the distro... and Most of that instantly goes away with 64bit."


I agree, and I'm glad to see someone maintaing compiz; It's to awsome a progam to just forget about. I look forward to checking out wine after getting the next Makulu Xfce setup. in the mean time I will learn from the 5.0 version so I have some idea of what I'm doing when the next one comes final.

May 19, 2014 at 9:13 PM Flag Quote & Reply

balewis57
Member
Posts: 2

raymerjacque at April 19, 2014 at 4:26 PM

in simple terms no.


Let us sum up the pro's and cons for a minute....


64bit MakuluLinux :

 

  • Can take advantage of better memory management ( provided the software supports it, which a lot doesn't ).
  • Altho has better memory management, it uses more system ram.
  • Issues with Wine ( so running windows apps is out the window )
  • Issues with Steam ( gaming is out the window )
  • Allows single apps to make use of more than 4GB of ram ( and there is less than a handfull of software that requires that much power ).
  • Detects all your system ram and make use of it.
  • Driver issues, Driver issues, More driver issues ....

 


32bit MakuluLinux PAE :

 

  • Runs ALL software out the box smoothly without issues
  • Runs Wine smoothly out the box without issues
  • Runs Steam out the box smoothly without issues
  • No Driver Issues
  • On MANY benchmarks it out performs 64bit because it requires less resources to run, specially with gaming.
  • Can run windows software if need be
  • Can game if need be without hiccups
  • Detects all of your system memory and makes use of it

 


Now, I am all for building 64bit OS, BUT and here comes the BIG BUT, You arent the one who must offer support on it, I am. so all these little issues and niggles that 64bit suffers from, where do you think users go for support ? These forums will be filled with driver issues, software issues, wine issues, steam issues and all kinds of other crap. Take a look at Mint, Ubuntu, Debian and all the other forums, it is plagued with such shit....


32bit PAE works out the box, detects all your ram, and look how little bugs we deal with, we get 2 or 3 bug posts a day, sometimes we go few days without any bug reports... ( this week being exception because its launch week ) And honestly, have you ever seen a linux with so much eye candy run so fast or smooth ? Ever seen software run so fast ? 


So now, looking back at all this info, you still think it is a good idea to make a 64bit OS at this point in time ?


I will make 64bit when 64bit offers the same speed and reliability that the current 32bit PAE does or when I have the man power to sit and offer support to hundreds of topics with issues. Until then, the logical thing to do is keep riding this awesome wave and keep putting out distro's that performs as intended and looks great at same time :)

BRAVO! Well said and well played!!

June 8, 2014 at 12:33 AM Flag Quote & Reply

You must login to post.